TabNabber Tablature   Musician Supported
  Piano, Guitar + more Tablature
Espa˝ol English
Franšais Русский
Artist:
# A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

Discussion Forums

Requests, Links, Advice and so much more!     [There are 43801 users currently online]
  [Advanced]
Forums > Website Related > Rests

9 years ago
Rests 7360 views  
68
replies
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
Is there someway to incorporate rests? I realize that may the tabs more messy. Just an idea to throw out there. Does midi have such capabilities?
 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
bump!!!!
 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
Robobox300


Admin
[Admin]

72 Posts
Dashes "---" are used for rests. Except the midi player ignores the dashes at the beginning of a staff line (this is a bug)

Did you have something else in mind though?


robo out

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
I was thinking maybe like a letter or a symbol that would pause the note instead of sustaining it. Since technically the >>>>>>> symbols mean to sustain while if there isn't anything but ----- then it means it is not, but that does nothing for the midi. I enjoy making tabs that sound good/accurate on the midis so those who are reading them know what it sort of sounds like. The song I'm doing now "A Thousand Miles" by Vanessa Carlton has some parts in the bass clef that require rests for it to sound right. There are other tabs I have done that have rests as well, but the notes are really close together so it is not as noticeable.

Perhaps another notation like a # or... ~ or...& or like a letter X? *shrugs*

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
What about a dot/period after the note? -> .

That usually symbolizes a staccato note in sheet music right? Except instead of over the note, it would come right after it?

I don't know, does this look weird?

4|----a.----d>>>>>>

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
That does look a bit off. Some rests happen a whole note away, or only a sixteenth note away so maybe something a little bit bigger for others to notice? I am really dead on ideas for this (symbol wise), besides making it a capital letter. That might make tabbing more confusing though...

I'd also like to throw the idea again of midi speeds, and maybe a bit more customization with maybe even allowing a number input. Like how it is now where the sped is usually default on what the tabber set it as so most people don't have to mess with it too much. It'd be difficult for new tabbers to grasp though while appealing to the more experienced, since DT and I like to make tabs that sound decent on midi when played. Overall it might make tabbing more confusing... Haha

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
What I think we're really talking about here is a symbol that signifies to cut a note (or raise your foot off the sustain pedal). Because really the dashes "---" represent rest time (so long as no note is being played/sustained).

So we need to figure out a good symbol to cut or stop a note. I wonder how this is done in guitar tabs? (If there is a common way to signify this in guitar land, we should use that). Or what about spaces to signify to stop a note? Here's what this could look like...

4|---a    d>>>>>a---   F-a------

or this would also work the same...

4|---a ---d>>>>>a--- --F-a------

or here's what it would look like with X's:
4|---ax---d>>>>>a---x--F-a------

4|---aX---d>>>>>a---X--F-a------


I'm kind of thinking out loud here for some general rules...

- The symbol for how long to hold a note should come after the note (not above or below it to not conflict with the ">>>" symbols)

- We shouldn't automatically cut the notes that don't have the ">>>" symbols after them, or a lot of tabs will sound very staccato

- When a note is followed by dashes "---", automatically hold the note for 2 or 3 beats

- This issue becomes most noticable with the instruments that automatically sustain the notes, like the organs and synths.

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
The more I try to think about it... I believe that we shouldn't really address this problem too much. Overall it'd make tabs more complicated and messy. After reading the "How To Read Tabs" section (after someone asked about reading tabs), the summation of tabs being "easier to read - but not nearly as detailed - as traditional sheet music. Tabs enable both beginners and experienced musicians alike to learn, share, and expand their music making talents." got me nodding my head in agreement.

So... ultimately, it might be a plus to have some standard way of tabbing rests, but that would complicate things. If people actually know (or heard) the song, they can add in their little notes in places where rests should be or if they want to accent it in anyway.

Thoughts about this?

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
How about using "R" or "r" for rest?
 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
Oops, my bad. "R" is usually used to indicate right hand. How about 'T' or 't' for 'tacet' which means 'silent; do not play'... or 'S' or 's' for 'silent' (or silence)?
 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
I'm leaning away from using a letter, it almost looks like another note or could look like a comment within the tab. eg:

4|---CAT---d>>>>>aT-----F-a------

4|---fat---d>>>>>at-----F-a------

4|---gas---d>>>>>as-----F-a------

4|---GAS---d>>>>>aS-----F-a------

I'm leaning towards something less conspicuous, a symbol like one of the below:

4|---a.---d>>>>>a.-----F-a------

4|---a ---d>>>>>a -----F-a------

4|---a_---d>>>>>a_-----F-a------

4|---a=---d>>>>>a=-----F-a------

4|---a+---d>>>>>a+-----F-a------

4|---a\---d>>>>>a\-----F-a------

4|---a/---d>>>>>a/-----F-a------

4|---a^---d>>>>>a^-----F-a------

4|---a!---d>>>>>a!-----F-a------

4|---a'---d>>>>>a'-----F-a------

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
I see what you mean. Logically, the LESS THAN symbol ( < ) seems to make the most sense since it's the opposite of the GREATER THAN symbol ( > ) which means sustain... Keeps things nice & simple.
The exclamation point gives the feel that the note should be accented. The slashes are in a bunch of the converted guitar tabs as slides or rakes going up or down. The '+' gives me the feel of "gimme more". The space & underscore give a broken tab look. Periods & carets just don't seem to stand out enough.
Yeah, my vote's for the LESS THAN ( < ) since it looks & means the exact opposite of the GREATER THAN, or sustain symbol ( > ). One means stop, the other means go.

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
I like the less than symbol! I was going to suggest something that is in the middle of the character area (e.g. not periods, commas, apostrophe's, or quotations) and a less than symbol would make sense.

Gonna have to edit a bunch of tabs... *sigh* Not as much as DT might though XD


 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
Okay, its either

4|---a<---d>>>>>a<-----F-a-c-d--F<-a<-c<-d<---

or

4|---a.---d>>>>>a.-----F-a-c-d--F.-a.-c.-d.---


(I'm still undecided. Also need to figure out how to enable this. :/ )

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
WasabiPea


Tab Guru
[Tab Guru]

44 Posts
I vote for the period! It is easier to read the notes without the < symbols.
 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
Yes, I think you're right Wasabi. The more I look at it the period seems to stand out better & signify a break (or 'rest').
 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
Happy weekend everybody! The sustain symbols are in, the rest symbols are in! The midis now play both as they should.

Follow your notes with ">>>>>>" to hold / sustain them.
Follow your notes with "." to end / cut them off (for a staccato effect).

Feliz Navidad!
-BA

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
It sounds as though you don't even need the rest designaton (.) now. I believe all you have to do now is use the '>' to extend notes' sustains where required. NOLife was right... I'm going to have to go back & revise many, many tabs. That's o.k., though, because they will 'eventually' sound correct through the MIDI.
 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
So it rests even without the dot? Ah, it sounds staccato with the dots... That means that when you try to incorporate sixteenth notes and you have a quarter note or a whole note you have to "sustain" them otherwise they will sound short in the midi, right? That's completely different than using the sustain pedal...


So... now it seems like half and whole notes will all have to be "sustained" in order for it to be played as a half or whole note in the midi...

I personally feel that the cons of not having rests wasn't such a big deal. But I guess it is something I have to get use to if the majority likes it. I feel it makes tabs a lot more confusing with what I said previously about half and whole notes.

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
Yeah, NL, it sounds as though you can get away without the '>' up to a quarter note, but anything longer than that requires it.
 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
Heh, I guess you were testing it too

4|c----c----|

4|c---.c---.|

4|c>>>.c>>>.|

4|c>>>-c>>>-|

They all sound the same. Anything longer. Gotta have the >>>>>

I guess I can get use to it. I would like the admins to check out the tabs (I'm converting Thousand Miles by Vanessa Carlton right now) and see if these new symbols add too much clutter to the tabs.

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
*cough*Update the how to read tab section*cough*

Ohh and Topic Creators can now lock their own threads, cool!

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
Here's a good one for you - listen to how bad this one sounds now -

http://tabnabber.com/view_Tab.asp?tabID=5381&a...

Well, I'm goin' to bed. It'll take a couple of weeks to go back & update all the tabs I didn't already include the sustains & rests in, but I went ahead & got the highest rated for now. Rome wasn't built in a day... or 2 to 3 days working all night & day.

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
have fun with that...
 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
Hey before you go to too much effort... we had implemented a rule:
- When a note is followed by dashes "---", automatically hold the note for 3 beats/dashes (then it cuts it off)

We can extend this. (Or we could even eliminate this feature if it is less desirable). It is mostly for the organs/synths that auto sustain.

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
Yea, I tested that out in the third to the last post I made in a blank tab.


Any opinions on the whole half note/whole note, situation? If you look at my Vanessa Carlton Tab, especially towards the end, where the Left hand plays whole notes, it isn't technically sustained, but the note is played throughout the entire length. Does this make the tab look messy?

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
Just extended the auto-sustain to 4 counts (up from 3).

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
I don't mind it being at '4' because any longer than that & the synth sounds seem to extend too long on several of my tabs, and if you set it higher than that, I have to go back and put the rest symbol in many, many of my songs to get them to sound decent in the MIDI playback. Could you please leave it at '4' (PLEASE!)
Ideally, we actually don't need to have a rest symbol at all if the count was set to '1' & you just put '>' to show a notes true length (this would be technically correct), but '4' is fine. Let's just decide something quick so I don't have to go back & put rests in & take sustains out, or vice versa, over and over again as the hold count changes.
For now I'll hold off on making any more changes until we finalize the issue, but something else we might also consider is maybe using the caret (^) for sustain. It makes the tabs easier to read when you've got notes buried in fields of '>'s, and it's (sorta) the opposite of '.' ('^' is up; '.' is down). Ex.:
-----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>b>>>>>>>>>>>d>>>>>>>>>>>e>>>>>>>>>>>f>>>>>
>>>>>a>>>>>>>>>>>c>>>>>>>>>>>A>>>>>>>>>>>D>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>F>>>>>>>>>>>g>>>>>>>>>>>C>>>>>>>>>>>f>>>>>
-----------------------------------------------------

OR-
-----------------------------------------------------
^^^^^^^^^^^b^^^^^^^^^^^d^^^^^^^^^^^e^^^^^^^^^^^f^^^^^
^^^^^a^^^^^^^^^^^c^^^^^^^^^^^A^^^^^^^^^^^D^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^F^^^^^^^^^^^g^^^^^^^^^^^C^^^^^^^^^^^f^^^^^
-----------------------------------------------------

I know this would create re-work on eveyone's tabs, but let's think long-term here. I would obviously have the most re-work to do, but if eveyone thinks it's better I'm willing to do it. IMHO it's just easier to read.

Come on people, put your 2 cents in & let's put this baby to bed! Rock The Vote!

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
Da Tickler
[Guest]
O.K. I've thought long & hard about this, and it seems we're re-defining piano tablature to suit the MIDI when it's easier just to adjust the MIDI to suit piano tablature. From a philosophical point of view a good analogy would be to say, "I've created a new computer & it produces different letters than what you type in so let's re-define the English language to suit whatever output the computer gives." Let's let technology (MIDI) serve us (piano tab), not us (piano tab) serve the technology (MIDI). No offense to anyone, but 'So what?' if people have to go back and add sustains once the MIDI is set correctly according to the proper definition of piano tablature. We may have to go back and re-work some previous tabs (many for me), but for the future the standard (piano tablature, not the MIDI) can adhered to. Then we won't need another symbol (.) to have to include in the tabs to get notes to stop. Let the MIDI (technology) serve the standard (piano tab). Let's keep it simple!
And, it really doesn't matter to me whether the '^' or '>' is used for sustain, but please, let's stop re-defining piano tablature.

 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
Yes, that was me before, but I must have gotten logged out before I finished the comment. Just wanted to say that it is too much work to go back and re-do all my tabs putting rests in to stop notes just to suit the MIDI when it's much easier to use the standard convention of just showing notes' sustains and setting the MIDI correctly. If you get rid of the auto-sustain then piano tabs will be correct when printed out without extra symbols. KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid (no offense, just an old saying that has been proven time, and time again).
 

9 years ago
Re: Rests
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
Wouldn't be hard to change > to ^ for tabbers. butttt... Yea, I was wanting more of the auto sustain and just having a rest, compared to the --- to four dash sustain then it stops.

I shall keep on prodding this, what about the whole and half notes?? It doesn't make sense to sustain them when that would require a pedal, as opposed to just holding down the key with your finger.

We also need more views and opinions on this topic from others.

I like keeping tabs simple

 

9 years ago
auto sustain court is in session
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
The Admins been giving this a lot of thought on our end too, and we are also in favor of keeping tabs simple (while our priorities are crooked). To us, the "^" symbol says move up, whereas the ">" symbol says move right.
The board votes to keep the ">" symbols for sustains.

For those that wish to use them in their tabs, the "." and ">" symbols add an increased level of accuracy. The absence of these symbols shouldn't be detrimental to the midi playback of the 11,000+ (predominantly piano) tabs presently on the site, many of which may not be edited for some time.

The primary purpose for the "." symbol and auto-sustain change (besides N0Life's whining, I mean request, for rests) was for the benefit of instruments that sustain without an end, like the synths, organs, horns, and electric guitar. We can apply the auto-sustain rule only to those instruments though.

So here is our midi playback proposal (at least for today):
For piano tabs, they go back to playing the way they were before (as if the sustain pedal is always down). For synth/horn/etc tabs, the auto-sustain gets cutoff on the 4th or 5th count. For all tabs, the "." symbol still signifies an explicit cutoff, and the ">>>" symbols still signify an explicit sustain.

Anyone in favor or opposed? Speak now or forever hold your pee.

 

9 years ago
Re: auto sustain court is in session
WasabiPea


Tab Guru
[Tab Guru]

44 Posts
I vote in favor, and would also like to hold my pea, ha ha

My tabs sounded better before, so, I like the idea of the playback going back to the way it was. Only holding the sound on the synths for 4 beats is okay too, as long as adding more >>>>>>>>'s holds the sound for longer.

Just my 2 cents

 

9 years ago
Re: auto sustain court is in session
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
It was an off night and I just wanted to chill and do whatever I wanted. But then I decide to tab A Thousand Miles, and then thought how some parts weren't... accurate?

Anywho, this current setting is fine (I saved my tab before I made the changes)

 

9 years ago
Re: auto sustain court is in session
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
I'd actually like to see the synth sounds cut back to '1', or at the most, '2'. If you have a chord playing before a single note (or succession of single notes) the first however many single notes that follow the chord get overidden by the auto-sustained chord & aren't audible. Make it more like reality and use the '>' as needed (that's what that symbol is supposed to be for anyway, right?).
 

9 years ago
Re: auto sustain court is in session
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
I'd also like to see the piano sustain not extened out so long. At 4 or 5 it's not too bad, but much longer and it makes songs sound like wrong notes are being played when chord changes occur. You have the technology to make it as close to sounding like someone's actually playing, so why not use it & let people tab in accordance with the standard. Old proverb: Give a man a fish... feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish... feed him for a lifetime.
 

9 years ago
Re: auto sustain court is in session
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
Here's a thought: How hard would it be to program into the MIDI a separate, additional line at the top of each stave to control the sustain for that stave? Ex.:

SP|^--------------.|^--------------.|^--------------.|-
R4|--------c-------|d-------e-------|f-------g-------|-
R4|----b-------c---|----d-------e---|----f-------g---|-
L3|a-------b-------|c-------d-------|e-------f-------|-

If the 'SP' line is present (SP for Sustain Pedal) the MIDI recognizes it & sustains all notes within the stave when the '^' (or whatever symbol you want) is shown, and releases sustain when the '.' is used (or vice versa- personally I think the '^' would be release since it visually signifies up, and the '.' would be sustain since it visually signifies down). If the 'SP' line is not present, then the MIDI just plays the tab according to standard tab convention recognizing '>' as note sustain. This would add the actual dimension of giving each tabber the ability to control sustain throughout entire songs within their own tabs, and you could cut back the auto-sustain to be more realistic. This way you're not re-defining actual piano tab nomenclature, just adding the sustain pedal control.

Just a thought...

 

9 years ago
horns are different!!
slippy


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

28 Posts
What about this? The sustain function should play different on flute,sax,trumpet,clarinet,trombone tabs - those instruments can play only one note at a time! Unless I guess if the horn tab is meant to have multiple instruments. :/

If it is just one horn though this kind of a tab:

4|a-c----c--
3|----g----g

should be played like this with the sustain automatically:

4|a>c>---c>-
3|----g>>--g

Sorry if that confuses things.

 

9 years ago
Re: horns are different!!
slippy


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

28 Posts
Actually now that I think about it some more, if you take Da Ticklers suggestion and have the horns and synth sounds automatically cut back to 2 - (1 seems too short to me, but idk, it'd be nice to hear both side by side) - then you can get by without worrying too much about playing one note at a time. And it keeps things simpler.
 

9 years ago
another approach
WasabiPea


Tab Guru
[Tab Guru]

44 Posts
That sustain pedal notation is an interesting idea, DT.

Does anyone know if any kind of sustain pedal notation exists in sheet music? Or are sustains all just denoted by the note type (quarter, half, whole, etc)?

What if we locate the SP line to the bottom of the stave and use v for sustain down and ^ for sustain up?

ex:

R4|--------c-------|d-------e-------|f-------g-------|-
R4|----b-------c---|----d-------e---|----f-------g---|-
L3|a-------b-------|c-------d-------|e-------f-------|-
SP|v--------------^|v--------------^|v--------------^|-

Just my 2 peas

 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
WasabiPea


Tab Guru
[Tab Guru]

44 Posts
*(v because it looks like it points down, ^ because it points up)
 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
Top or bottom... it really doesn't matter, but another thing I thought about is that we'll probably have to omit the measure separators or there might be a slight staccato when you release & then press the pedal again:

SP|_---------------^_---------------^_--
R4|--d---d---d---dd|e-e---e---e---e-|---
L2|a---a---a---a---|b---b---b---b---|---

Yes, there is standard notation for using the sustain pedal. It's typically seen as a long arc over or under the notes played when the pedal is down.

 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
... and the 'v' looks good. it's the opposite of '^'. O.K., ADMINS, get crackin'! HE-HE.
 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
... just to see what it looks like:

SP|v---------------^v-------^---v---^v--
R4|--d---d---d---dd|e-e---e---e---e-|---
L2|a---a---a---a---|b---b---b---b---|---

- OR -

R4|--d---d---d---dd|e-e---e---e---e-|---
L2|a---a---a---a---|b---b---b---b---|---
SP|v---------------^v-------^---v---^v--

 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
For sustain petals DT is demonstrating it, for music sheets there are sustain marks that are straight lines on the bottom with a little carrot ^ like a heart beat on a monitor to let the musician know when to release and press down again. A little hard to explain.
 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
Found it!   From http://piano.about.com/od/musicaltermssymbols/ss/2Int_SheetMusic_7.htm

There are several indicators in sheet music that indicate sustain (in addition to the note durations):

   1) "Ped." = Depress / use the sustain pedal.

   2) "*"    = Release the sustain pedal.

   3) There's also this heartbeat stuff which is used to show a rapid succession of sustain on and offs:
    
    "__/\_/\__"

The underscores above ( "__" ) indicate the sustain pedal is depressed.
The "/\" symbols indicate a quick, temporary release of the sustain pedal.

Oh Boy.

I'm not sold on bringing this notation into the piano tab world. Firstly, because I think few people will know what these are. Secondly, I think it is confusing to have more than one way to show a sustain.
   ">>>>>" and "."    vs    "Ped" and "*"   vs    "__/\_/\__"

And lastly, because it is harder to make the midi player recognize all of these symbols (from a programmer's perspective)!

But I remain (semi)open to other opinions.

 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
HxCandGore


Pro Tabber
[Pro Tabber]

11 Posts
are they even working? cause I changed some of my tabs up and some of the --- symbols still play as if they were like >>>>

maybe im just stupid?

 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
Yeah, we're experimenting with different settings, as a final consensus has not yet been reached.
 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
For now they seem to be back to the original settings except for with the period rests.

The only issue with this is that if a melody is played on multiple octaves, you'll here the higher or lower octave still being sustained while the melody goes on to the next octave.

So what's being brainstormed right now BA?

 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
tabber dude


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

190 Posts
just an opinion here...
but piano tabs are not supposed to be as accurate as sheet music.
piano tabs are here, because they are simpler to read, quicker to help you learn the song, and easier for people who dont know sheet music.

maybe if tabbers are after more accuracy you need a recording program with a sheet music generator? these programs allow you to play a song on keyboard, and providing you have the correct MIDI connections to plug from keyboard into computer, it records the song as MIDI data, and you can then transpose this into sheet music with a few simple clicks.
or as a cheaper alternative type in "piano notation software" or "free piano notation software" into google and see what you can find, i came up with many results.

you dont want something to complicated for tabs, as it would destroy the whole simplicity of piano tabs. i think the system tabnabber.com has at the moment works quite well, and rests would clutter the tab.

why change what works well already?





 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
Tabs can be just as accurate as sheet music if they're done properly. They are simply a different form of writing music.
 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
How about this? Since auto-sustain is a parameter controlled by simply changing one value in the programming for the MIDI, why not include a tabber controlled input box next to the MIDI speed selection that lets each tabber input whatever value they want for their particular tab? Maybe another pull-down like the MIDI speed selection or just a number input that allows the tabber to set the auto-sustain for each song (0- No Sustain, 1- 1/16 longer, 2- 1/8 longer, 3- 3/16 longer, 4, 1/4 longer, etc.)
The global auto-sustain setting you have now is much too long for synths as any synth instrument song I have tabbed sounds wrong since notes carry out way too long and drown out notes that follow them. Ex.: Listen to these & see how the extended auto-sustain makes them sound bad as over-extended notes become droning wrong notes (1/8 & 1/4 notes just go on & on)-

http://tabnabber.com/view_Tab.asp?tabID=6013&a...
http://tabnabber.com/view_Tab.asp?tabID=10080&...
http://tabnabber.com/view_Tab.asp?tabID=6398&a...

Since you want to try & keep it as close to classical sheet music notation keep in mind that classical sheet music notation doesn't use stops ('.') for stopping notes.

Just in case you're still considering a sustain pedal control line how about keeping it simple with the already existing '>' & doing this:

SP|>>>>>>>>--------|>>>>>>>>--------|>>>>>>>>--------|>>> …

 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
Oh, here's another one-
http://tabnabber.com/view_Tab.asp?tabID=5381&a...

 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
We will be adding another drop down box to let you choose the auto-sustain duration for your tabs. Great idea, DaTickler! We like this because it keeps tabs easy to read while also providing greater precision. It also allows existing and future tabs to sound as their authors intended in the midi player. He shoots... he scores!!!

The delay in finalizing all of this is mostly because this topic has re-opened the debate over the standard sustain notation between the Admins. At issue was whether or not the ">>>" and "." symbols are the best to represent note lengths and note cut-offs. However after examining several alternatives for sustain symbols, eg....

5|----c===c=--c===|----c===c=--c===|----c===c=----c=|d=c=--------c=d=|
4|----a===a=a=====|----g===g=g=====|----a===a=--a===|==--a=----a=----|
3|----a=====----a=|----g=====----g=|----f=====----f=|----f=====----f=|
3|--e=======--e===|--d=======--d===|--c=======--c===|--c=======--c===|

5|----c...c.--c...|----c...c.--c...|----c...c.----c.|d.c.--------c.d.|
4|----a...a.a.....|----g...g.g.....|----a...a.--a...|..--a.----a.----|
3|----a.....----a.|----g.....----g.|----f.....----f.|----f.....----f.|
3|--e.......--e...|--d.......--d...|--c.......--c...|--c.......--c...|

5|----c^^^c^--c^^^|----c^^^c^--c^^^|----c^^^c^----c^|d^c^--------c^d^|
4|----a^^^a^a^^^^^|----g^^^g^g^^^^^|----a^^^a^--a^^^|^^--a^----a^----|
3|----a^^^^^----a^|----g^^^^^----g^|----f^^^^^----f^|----f^^^^^----f^|
3|--e^^^^^^^--e^^^|--d^^^^^^^--d^^^|--c^^^^^^^--c^^^|--c^^^^^^^--c^^^|

...we believe the current symbols ">>" make the most sense visually (even if they make the notes a little harder to see):

5|----c>>>c>--c>>>|----c>>>c>--c>>>|----c>>>c>----c>|d>c>--------c>d>|
4|----a>>>a>a>>>>>|----g>>>g>g>>>>>|----a>>>a>--a>>>|>>--a>----a>----|
3|----a>>>>>----a>|----g>>>>>----g>|----f>>>>>----f>|----f>>>>>----f>|
3|--e>>>>>>>--e>>>|--d>>>>>>>--d>>>|--c>>>>>>>--c>>>|--c>>>>>>>--c>>>|



And all of this will probably change tomorrow once someone throws out a better idea!
Otherwise we will continue with the existing symbols, ">>" and "."



@DaTickler - I need to ponder that sustain pedal control line a bit more, although I do like that last format the best out of all the options proposed.
One of the sticking points is that it is a little redundant with the other ways of denoting sustain. Plus it gets confusing if the sustain control line conflicts with a tab's auto-sustain setting which can also conflict with a tab line's sustain symbols. But the biggest barrier to entry is that it will take a lot of work to make the midi player smart enough to handle the logic.

Also the "." symbol is probably not really necessary (especially if the auto sustain setting is set low), however it does provide an explicit end to a note (which is important for staccatos, or if the auto sustain setting is set higher).

 

9 years ago
Re: another approach
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
With tabber controlled auto-sustain there's no need for a sustain control line any more. Fiesta time now with a few more Coronas w/ lime.
 

8 years ago
Re: another approach
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
Now that I really think about it (I know, you're sayin' "Oh, $%!#, Da Tickler's thinkin' again… call the looney bin"), it would be nice & completely realistic (maybe in the distant to possibly even not-so-distant future) to have the separate control line for the sustain pedal. To be realistically functional, it would have to be logically 'OR'd with the standard use of note sustain ('>') to be able to read sustained notes as carrying across pedal pumps. Maybe this is not feasible? Ex.:

SP|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>->>
R5|a---------------|----g-----------|--------F-------|--
R5|----e-------e>>>|>>>>--------d>>>|>>>>--------c>>>|>>
R4|--------c-------|--------b-------|----a-----------|--
L2|a---a---a---e---|e---e---e---d---|d---d---d---c---|c-

If it's not feasible, maybe you could have a separate check box for the tabber to select either 'SP' control line, or the pull-down to set auto-susatin for each individual song?
Anyway, is there an ETA on getting the user defined auto-sustain pull-down selection box just below the MIDI speed selection pull-down box for each individual song? Inquisitively yours, DT.

 

8 years ago
Re: another approach
Da Tickler


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

183 Posts
Thanks for the auto-sustain control. ADMINS ROCK!
BA, Belliza, & Robobox are the greatest!

 

8 years ago
Re: another approach
BA


Admin
[Admin]

334 Posts
Drop down box for the sustain is in! Any bugs, report them here.
 

8 years ago
Re: another approach
N0Life


Tab Master
[Tab Master]

106 Posts
Looks good so far! Now just gotta find the right fit...
 

8 years ago
Re: another approach
tabber dude


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

190 Posts
i gotta say .... wow! the ammount of options you have to create your tabs is greater, and its easier to get the MIDI sounding closer to the actual song. im going to go through and re-edit all my tabs when i get time lol

thanks admins :)

 

8 years ago
Re: another approach
slickrick


Tabologist
[Tabologist]

89 Posts
Ditto with the above, thanks a loot!!
 
Closed to Replies

The Disclaimer: We rarely monitor and have little to no control of the content posted here. View at your own risk.

Page Loaded in: 0.1094 seconds

 

 
TabNabber.com - User Supported     ----|---  Contact us  ---|--- Advertising ---|---  Privacy Policy ---|---  Terms of Use  ---|